Curse

Shasgaliel · Jul 22, 2009, 10:44 AM // 10:44

GW multiplayer is now about talking on GC or AC with people doing similar stuff not playing with them together.... Seen it in so many guilds or alliances recently.

One year ago I was against increasing the hero cap due to still a large number of newer players coming in to GW. Now I am for it since the there is less and less new players coming and the ones who came mostly just want to be run all the time not to play together. Also Nicholas and Zaishen quests make the pugging for those who liked to PUG quite easy and enjoyable so my another argument became obsolete. I have to say that with Z quests and Nicholas Monday farms it is much easier to find people to play with than with Ursan times... What is more those pugs do not fail so much as they tend to last year.

I also think that for most of us HM is easy anyway so 7 hero cap will not make it easier, we wiil just do the same stuff which we are doing now for the 100th time already in a different way.

Gun Pierson · Jul 22, 2009, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

I just can't believe how lazy people are

You want to put 7 heroes on "auto pilot" and do absolutely nothing. Computer program will do everything for you... full DoA run, UWSC, FoW, Urgoz... you name it

Lazyness and auto pilot have nothing to do with it. And in case you forgot, you don't need 7 heroes to put on auto pilot, it works with 3.

Btw, I want to see you do an UWSC and DoA HM fullrun with 6 heroes. You may even use 3 of mine if you don't have two accounts. I'll set them up like you want, runes, weapons + mods whatever. And even if you succeed, which I doubt, only a very small % of the playerbase will be able to do that.

People don't want 7 heroes to make the game easy, they want them for other reasons, which is something you should have known by now if you read the topic.

Nereyda Shoaal · Jul 22, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

People don't want 7 heroes to make the game easy, they want them for other reasons, which is something you should have known by now if you read the topic.

Reasonable reasons such as... ??

Gun Pierson · Jul 22, 2009, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

Reasonable reasons such as... ??

Ah for christ sake, do I need to repeat them again?

- Playerbase is spread out over 3 continents and the game is 4 years old. The playerbase itself has decreased too.

- No long wait times, no forced pugging.

- More control, more creativity.

- More food for the brain, as people can experiment and setup synergy builds and what not.

- Henchies are very boring as they have fixed builds, no creativity.

- You can already play with 6 heroes, one more won't make a difference balance wise. It would be more practical as you wouldn't need a second account or annoy friends to borrow their heroes.

- ...

Basically to have an increased gaming experience and to have more fun which doesn't equal an easier game.

eximiis · Jul 22, 2009, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

If I can't get into a PUG because everyone is playing single player in 7 hero groups, then I would have to play with heroes. That's the issue here which you have to address if want to make this argument. You want to play single player so you don't care, but surely you can see how that would make already difficult to find PUGs even more scarce? Most people play MMOs at least in part for the player interaction, and thus do not want game changes that reduce or eliminate that.

The ppl who wants 7 heroes are mainly playing with heroes/henchmen so you would still not have them to pug with you.

And you can always find a guild to play in PUG.

- ppl who plays heroes/henchment = now will use 7 heroes

- ppl who PUG will continue to play with fail pug.

No downside imo.

Targren · Jul 22, 2009, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

If I can't get into a PUG because everyone is playing single player in 7 hero groups, then I would have to play with heroes. That's the issue here which you have to address if want to make this argument.

That has already been addressed, but it is a non-issue.

Either

A) There are many people like you who do not want to play with 7 heroes, and you can play with them, so your complaint is meaningless.

B) There are FEW people like you, which means you will indeed have a problem pugging. It also means you are in a vast minority, and should not be catered to at the expense of everyone else who does not WANT to be forced to pug with you. If this is the case, it is not the "solo-players" who should "find a new game", as someone suggested in this thread.

This ignores the fact that most people would rather take braindead, bad-barred henchies than pug with you already.

Your argument boils down to wanting others to be forced to play the game your way so you can do what you want.

Coverticus · Jul 22, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

And what is the difference to 2 players and 6 heroes?

You are interacting with another player for a start.... (forgetting borrowing other player's heroes for now). It's still actioning the player to play with one other player. Okay so you can't get a person or PUG, ANet should not really be catering for this problem at this time.

Why do I say this? Well, step back and think for one minute. It was picked up earlier in this thread. 7 heroes, therefore 7 AI "players". Plus minions and pets. Thats alot of AI work. Now before people cry "oh thats already happening with 2 people and 6 heroes". Yes it is but if seven heroes become widely available, many more people would be using this feature. And can the ANet servers cope with this extra load? Maybe, maybe not. So you may get what you ask for but hinder the gaming experience even more than is currently there due to the lag this extra processing might incur. Many people will still prefer something new to having 7 heroes (I would guess) - the amount of development time 7 heroes would need would still be better placed elsewhere.

And I would not put it past ANet for saying "You want 7 heroes? Sure - $5/10 per extra hero slot please"

Also this poll is still missing an "Don't Mind Either Way" option. I'm still not fussed either way if this comes or not, just trying to provide a reasonable "against" argument.

Gun Pierson · Jul 22, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Jim

- the amount of development time 7 heroes would need would still be better placed elsewhere.

The system already exists, they tested with 7 heroes before nightfall got released, the quote is in here somewhere.

As for your server argument, the game is instanced and uses protocols that transfer very small data packages. I forgot the exact details about the server setup but read something about it somewhere in the past. I think the servers can handle 7 heroes without a doubt, especially since we know they tested with them. The reason Anet gave was that it would be imbalanced, not that it would overload the servers.

Bryant Again · Jul 22, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Basically to have an increased gaming experience and to have more fun which doesn't equal an easier game.

The one thing blocking our way is that that's the only reason we want more heroes - for fun, and I think that's why ANet is worried about implementing 7 of them: they don't want to narrow pugging even more, as little as 7 heroes would affect it, just because we want some funs.

Targren · Jul 22, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Jim

Yes it is but if seven heroes become widely available, many more people would be using this feature. And can the ANet servers cope with this extra load? Maybe, maybe not.

This confuses me. What extra load? An AI routine running on a hero instead of a henchman? The extra minions (someone mentioned 48 pets+minions being a problem earlier in the thread)? I don't think that's a problem, when you've got things like double-discord already popping 35-40 minions at a time (probably more of an computer issue than a server one) or the game throwing 60 mobs skinned with transparency at you at once (RIP Budger), so it can obviously handle a buttload of mobs in a zone (part of the benefit of the instanced design). All of which have AI processes.

Unless the servers are made out legos, duct tape, and cheetos, I don't think that's going to be a problem. The bigger issue, as mentioned, is probably the UI. Flags for the other heroes[0], and a relatively minor change to the party list box (It already keeps you from adding heroes if the party is full)

[0]Though I'd take 7 heroes with just the normal flag for the last 4, provided the grouping layout is changed so that flagged heroes don't stand on each other like those idiots on top of the building in Independence Day just begging to have a fireball one-shot them. Hell, that would be nice for henchies too.

Gun Pierson · Jul 22, 2009, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The one thing blocking our way is that that's the only reason we want more heroes - for fun, and I think that's why ANet is worried about implementing 7 of them: they don't want to narrow pugging even more, as little as 7 heroes would affect it, just because we want some funs.

I think you hit the nail on top.

So how do we convince a stubborn company?

Bryant Again · Jul 22, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

You don't.

Fortunately it's a small issue, since 7 heroes is far from a need.

Nereyda Shoaal · Jul 22, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Ah for christ sake, do I need to repeat them again?

- Playerbase is spread out over 3 continents and the game is 4 years old. The playerbase itself has decreased too.
- No long wait times, no forced pugging.
- More control, more creativity.
- More food for the brain, as people can experiment and setup synergy builds and what not.
- Henchies are very boring as they have fixed builds, no creativity.
- You can already play with 6 heroes, one more won't make a difference balance wise. It would be more practical as you wouldn't need a second account or annoy friends to borrow their heroes.
- ...

Basically to have an increased gaming experience and to have more fun which doesn't equal an easier game.

Yaaaaawn... [clears throat]
Sorry did you say something innovative 'cos I missed it

Tommy's · Jul 22, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

If would be for 7 heroes for 2 reasons;
- The looks. Henchman just look ugly, and my heroes look good ^^ So my team would look much better, which is a thing I'd quite like.
- The synnergy of builds. With 7 heroes you can make alot more fun team setups and test alot of new builds. Normally without another team mate, this is impossible.

This could happen for some sort, if the more heroes you have in your team, the more handicap you get. Like for every hero in the team you get 3% unremovable dp, or for each hero above 4, you get 5%, or what so ever. Then teams could still be fair, but more fun.

Gun Pierson · Jul 22, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

Yaaaaawn... [clears throat]
Sorry did you say something innovative 'cos I missed it

No, you missed nothing at all, go back to sleep under your bridge...

Lishy · Jul 22, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucist Ovv

This could happen for some sort, if the more heroes you have in your team, the more handicap you get. Like for every hero in the team you get 3% unremovable dp, or for each hero above 4, you get 5%, or what so ever. Then teams could still be fair, but more fun.

No offense, but that idea is pure SILLY
Why implement unnecessary limitations?

Heroes do not have any advantages over normal players. They are only a convenience.ii

Methinks we will get more heroes in the next content update, but in order to get the raised cap, there would be some stupid requirement like paying for it.

Imaginos · Jul 22, 2009, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

No offense, but that idea is pure SILLY
Why implement unnecessary limitations?

Heroes do not have any advantages over normal players. They are only a convenience.ii

Methinks we will get more heroes in the next content update, but in order to get the raised cap, there would be some stupid requirement like paying for it.

heh maybe they should change the company name to Paynet.

pay for char slots
pay for storage tabs
pay for name change
pay for cosmetic avatar changes
pay for skill unlocks
pay for pet unlocks
pay for pvp sets

coming soon

pay to pick up drops
pay to have extra heroes
pay to zone to different areas

BlackSephir · Jul 23, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

119 pages on Guru alone, 1023 vs 219.
Good job listening to the community ANet.

Quote:

Heroes do not have any advantages over normal players. They are only a convenience.ii

Heroes even have disadvantages (not being able to use pve skills etc) but people who are against are too... special to comprehend the whole concept.

Shasgaliel · Jul 23, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

119 pages on Guru alone, 1023 vs 219.
Good job listening to the community ANet.

Heroes even have disadvantages (not being able to use pve skills etc) but people who are against are too... special to comprehend the whole concept.

If you have read this thread you would notice that there were some very good arguments against heroes which were still valid even last year. However with the current status of the game indeed there are less and less reasons against hero cap. I am quite confident that some people who voted no when this thread was created or even last year might be now in the yes group. I would be one of them.

lord of all tyria · Jul 23, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

Reasonable reasons such as... ??

So I can create immensely hilarious builds.